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They shut down the Internet and slaughtered people

Discussion in 'News & Politics' started by Soheil, Dec 5, 2019.  |  Print Topic

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  1. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    I had no Internet for some 2 weeks. The Iranian government shut down the Internet nationwide. It was after people protested against the Islamic government all around the country.
    It felt like I was on an island alone these 2 weeks. When I came back to the net, I felt confused. I couldn't swallow that many events that happened. They massacred hundreds or possibly thousands of people. I felt helpless.

    It feels like we Iranians are hostages of some murderers. They turn off the lights to prevent others from seeing what they do.
    They probably will shut down the Internet again and for a longer time or maybe forever.

    I just write this because I am very sad about the events. I sometimes cry for those innocent people who were killed. I feel helpless and very angry with our leaders. They are mass murderers.
     
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  2. athena.vhd
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    im sorry u feel like this. im sorry for all of us!
    i had the same feelings as they even hurt my frriend badly cuz she was taking photos.
    all i know is that we dont have to just stay and cry!
    we have to do sth...i dont wanna die when i havent lived and i hope one day we could have an effective revolution just like iraq had.
     
  3. DamnGurl

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    It's horribe what happened and is happening in Iran. I have family there. But I honestly feel it's up to the people of Iran to keep standing strong and keep on protesting against the regime. One day it will happen, the regime will fall. But whatever you do, do NOT ask USA or UK for help. They only steal and then take control of the rest, they have always wanted and still want control of Iran and its resources.

    The country of Iran belongs to the Iranian people. But the regime has to go.
     
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  4. zen

    zen Curator, Royal Academy of Inappropriate Handshake
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    I've been wondering if you are all right after I read about the demonstration. I was excited people in Iran finally started to stand up for their rights, following the footstep of Hong Kong, but at the same time worried how much sacrifice this will require to achieve. Stay safe!!

    President of Iran has sounded out his wish to visit Japanese prime minister just the other day hoping Japan to play a mediator between Iran and USA, I think, to gain less severe sanction. But as you expressed before, you don't want that to happen, right? I don't know how Japanese gov. is gonna deal with this issue, but as long as Iran won't let nuclear weapon development plan, our hands are tied.
     
  5. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    How are you Mr?
    The demonstrations proved to me that Iranians like the Pahlavi dynasty and the prince in exile. But I don't know if they want him to be a president/pm or a king.

    Slogans were very interesting, As we can see in the videos. Not a single one chants were against America/Trump/sanctions. Many of them were to support the Pahlavi family: "Shah (king) of Iran, return to Iran!" and "Bless your soul, Reza Shah". Also "Clerics must get lost" and even “Our enemy is right here, they lie that it's America!”
    I myself couldn't believe what people did.

    They didn't shoot people just to shut down the protests, They simply executed people in the streets. Now the mullahs seem to be very frightened... I am sure they can't sleep at night.
     
    #5 Soheil, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  6. Jianghu
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    Sorry that after an absence (on my part too) I hear your news and it's so grim.

    The world is in flames. We're on the cusp of losing large swathes of global agriculture and fisheries to climate change, and how long before antibiotics stop working ? Higher temperatures and drought are going to make a large part of the Middle East unliveable within decades.

    I know that's not an answer to Iran's current tragedy... but even when the clerics are gone, Iran will have a hard time coping in a world of savage competition for dwindling resources.

    No one is coming to save you. Americans and Europeans are exhausted by war - they can't even fight ISIS or safeguard their own standard of living. Beijing might throw you a lifeline, but mainly to bolster its own commercial opportunities because China too is racing against the clock. Still, I hope a new Iranian regime will be less brutal.

    Take care of yourself and the ones you love as best you can. Don't lose precious years of your life and your intellect agonizing over what one person alone cannot change.

    And keep talking to us because we need to hear it...
     
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    #6 Jianghu, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  7. zen

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    Not bad, thanks!

    It seems what the people in the demonstration are chanting are pretty much same with your perception of the country. They are not easily brainwashed by the gov. but smartly seeing through information. How is the demo going? Are they still fighting on the streets?

    It seems US congress has started to consider increase of the stationed army. I've just watched the news describing CIAs are behind this demonstration. I hope US won't fail or abandon you people half way through once they start interfering with military power.

    If you guys can bring back your King in your country, it might be the best way to employ the system similar to UK and Japan with constitutional monarchy. The sovereignty is on people, and monarchs are only the symbol of the state without any political influence. This way, we can carry on with the traditions, and the monarch will have no power over people. I hope such day will come to your country before long.
     
  8. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    Hi, how have you been?

    The reason I started to support a regime-change rather than gradual reforms, is this very problem you mentioned. Mullahs have destroyed water resources and the nature of this ancient country. And it's probably too late!
    But if the ISIS in Iran lasts a few more years, then it will be certain (making Iran uninhabitable)!

    Most people here don't take this seriously. They know it's a problem but they talk about freedom and poverty most of the time.

    So, I am not a fan of revolutions. Maybe I wouldn't mind much if there wasn't such a water crisis. They will collapse sooner or later even if people do nothing. But my ancient country is being destroyed before my very eyes! So...

    Thanks a lot.
     
  9. zen

    zen Curator, Royal Academy of Inappropriate Handshake
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    I've been busy with work for a few weeks, but I'm slacking now. I can't keep working on PC for long with my aging eyes. (´;ω;`)

    Yeah, peaceful regime-change is always better than revolution. It's the matter of how much those Mullahs will try to cling to the power and work on nuclear weapon development to maintain their safety.

    Has desertification in Iran become that much serious? Hey, don't fret too much, desert can be revived to greenery with right irrigation systems, though it's a serious issue for farmers until such time comes. Once the regime-change is done and the economic sanction is lifted, Western countries/Japan will need to try not to follow the steps of the aftermath of Arab Spring.
     
  10. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    No, they can't survive when they kill so easily. It is very different from Hong Kong! They are very well organized there. But here we have a gov that is an expert in extinguishing any organization, any popular person, anything that can be a small threat to them.
    The demonstrations were all around the country, Maybe hundreds of cities. But it was more of a lower-class demonstration. Tehran with about 10 million population wasn't so active. The day that the middle classes and especially Tehran really come out with the lower class, It will be different.


    I don't think Trump wants a war. Especially in his first term. Especially when his sanctions are working well.
    I don't know where did you read that it was CIA or with the help of them. I think it was the people. But the sanctions was/is effective too (It made people come out for change).


    We have the son of our late king actually. He was the crown prince at the time of mullahs' revolution.
    Consider that they just want to praise Pahlavi family or the late king when they shout that slogans.

    That's what our prince always say. He says a republic is fine too, but a constitutional monarchy is better. But it's up to the people to decide in a referendum, he says.
     
    #10 Soheil, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  11. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    You better take care of those eyes. :) 

    I think so. We are the worst country in land-subsidence I think. It's about 20-30 cm per year in some provinces. And it's all because of the mullahs. The jungles have been destroyed hugely too.
    I hope you are right and it can be solved.
     
    #11 Soheil, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  12. angel70
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    I was worried about you, and I'm glad to find you safe.

    You certainly don't need the Pahlevis back! They were put into power in a coup backed by the US and organized by our CIA, overthrowing the democratically elected and liberal government of Mossadegh, who was a little too much of a socialist, and intended to nationalize your country's oil, taking it from British and US oil companies.

    Also, don't look to Iraq as a model for a successful revolution. It's government is totally corrupt, and its government has killed more Iraqis in the past couple of weeks than your government has killed Iranians. The Iraqi government is weird -- propped up both by the US and Iran.

    Anyway, keep your head down, and stay safe. As an old man, I can tell you that things always change -- and, every once in a while, they even change for the better.
     
  13. Jianghu
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    I agree, sadly. I don't like to be the voice of relentless pessimism but history isn't promising**. Any new regime will be dominated by oligarchs who control the economy for their own benefit and destroy all those who challenge their monopoly.

    And that's before considering the interventions of Russia, China, and the Gulf Arabs (and possibly the US if it still cares) - each of whom who will prop up its own faction.

    Sometimes geography is overwhelmingly destiny. I fear that Iran's fate is sealed.

    ** Tunisia's strengthening democracy would seem to be the only counter-argument... but Tunisia is a tiny, sheltered country with few energy resources.
     
  14. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    Thanks a lot for your caring. Hope you are doing fine too.

    Pahlavi kings had certainly their faults. They could've done better in letting other democratic parties take part in power to prevent youth from falling into Islamism and Communism, As the late king himself used to call them the "red and black reactionary" (Islamists and Communists).
    But as a whole, they were good. Not to mention that it was decades ago not the 21st century. We must compare them to other governments in that period, then judge them.

    About Mossadegh! It's one of the most controversial issues in Iran. I wonder why Americans have such a viewpoint about it: Mosadegh was not a saint! Hitler was democratically elected too! You can't say X who was democratically elected is necessarily better than a king.
    Mossadegh had quite a few acts that could be described as undemocratic/illegal acts. Ex. When he was impeached he decided to hold a parliamentary-dissolution referendum. The referendum held several days before the so-called coup and he won. The parliament dissolved. (P.S: The referendum was not quite democratic. Ex. No secret ballots.)

    Also, That parliament had only 79 representatives! It was because Mossadegh had stopped the election in the middle of it and many of the chairs in the parliament remained empty. They say Mossadegh did it to prevent pro-Pahlavi representatives in rural places come to the parliament.

    I also think the CIA and UK played a small part in that thing.

    I like Dr Mosadegh too. But it was not like the King was evil and Mosadegh was a saint!
     
    #14 Soheil, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  15. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    Iraq is very different. Iraq is a religious and an Arab country.
    Iranians are the most liberal people (Except Israel) in the Middle East. Mosques are almost empty. Iranians demand a secular government.
    Also, In Iran, they killed hundreds (probably thousands) in less than a week. In Iraq, the gov doesn't kill people. It's anonymous snipers and things like that. Many reports say it's Pro-Iranian groups who murder people there! You see? Many Iraqis are tired of the mullahs of Tehran too.

    We have a rationalist Prince and he says he simply wants a secular democracy for Iran (He believes in the rights of the gays too). He is moderate and peaceful. Doesn't believe in violent acts. Admits his father was not so democratic but he admires him as a whole. As most people do, Despite our crazy forefathers who did the Islamic revolution.
     
    #15 Soheil, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  16. angel70
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    Reza Pahlavi seems to be a very decent man, and if he did come to power, I doubt he'd bring back SAVAK -- but he also seems very comfortable abroad, giving speeches and running his projects. I don't think he's all that anxious to return to Iran after forty years.

    Actually, there aren't many Americans who ever heard of Mossedegh --but those of us who were aware that the CIA was fomenting and supporting right-wing coups back during the Cold War knew the history. Iran was among the first of many.
     
  17. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    Yeah, he is more of a calm and rational person rather than being a very charismatic and radical leader. His personalities and policies make people think he is not active enough. Maybe they are right maybe not.

    Many of his supporters are generally more radical than him.
    Ex. Many of them blame Islam and clerics at all. He's a secular and doesn't speak about religion at all. But he's not an anti-islam like many of his supporters. That's good for uniting the country. It makes him lovable for a large groups of people.

    I do know that. Many people may confuse Iran and Iraq there, as i remember I've read. But this is a comparatively popular story about Iran and i heard it from a few other Americans. I meant those who've read about it.
     
    #17 Soheil, Dec 9, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  18. zen

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    For the country which gets many political influences from other countries and shares borders with several neighboring countries that are in the turmoil, I think a symbolic and legitimate existence such as monarchy is a great method to unite a country. I'm not familiar with the ethnic groups in Iran, but for an ancient country with traditions monarchy, it can bring stability than any other head of the state, actually, although I can also see the contradictions to the ideal democracy and modern equality from the liberal stand points in constitutional monarchy, such high level of democracy can only be achieved in a countries with large proportions of people with higher education. This is a reality. This is the major reason why any puppet democratic governments fail to keep their democracy and peace in the state.
     
    #18 zen, Dec 10, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  19. Soheil
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    Soheil Linguaphile extremist...
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    We haven't had any consistency after Arab Muslims' invasion, 1400 years ago. Invasion after invasion. Countless overruns by Turkic and Mughul. The Sasanian Empire was the last kingdom of the Persian Empire before the rise of Islam. It ruled from 224 to 651 AD, For over 400 years.
    So, Many Iranians want to revive the Sasanians' culture in many ways. It's partly what we are now. We haven't lost our ties to the Sasanian era (Our language, celebrations, etc). But we want to praise it formally. But this Islamic government hate Iranian culture and history.

    "King" is a very important part of our historic legacy. We've had countless great kings. Our epic book named Shahname (the book of kings). I'm sure many of Iranians don't wanna give it away. Especially when we have such a good candidate for being the king.

    Great point! Our world is not ideal.
     
  20. Soheil
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