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Reassignment Surgery without Changing Gender?

Discussion in 'General (Off Topic Lounge)' started by JohnPaul, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:58 AM.  |  Print Topic

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  1. JohnPaul

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    Hey,
    I'm unsure where I can talk about this or if anyone here can help me... But I'm giving it a shot. I wasn't sure which topic to post this under, so apologies if it's incorrect.

    I'm male and openly gay. I realised my sexuality from an early age and always been comfortable with it. I'm attracted to men and never once been sexually attracted to women.
    However, a long while ago I began to watch straight porn, and it's become a great turn on. I kept contemplating why I liked it so much and to rule out any attraction to women, I watched solo videos of women... And as I thought: there was no attraction.
    I then realised it was the guy I would solely focus on when watching, and it's a great turn on for myself to see him in action with her.
    I then contemplated my own sexual preferences. I'm LGBT culture I'm labelled as a bottom. I've tried topping in the past but anal is too tight for me to penetrate. On the other hand, anal given to me way too painful and I refuse to have anal sex as I get no pleasure from it whatsoever.
    I believed that this was why I might have liked straight porn more, since a vagina isn't as tight as doing it anally, I could be subconsciously making up for it... Until I came across transguys
    Watching transguys in porn is the ultimate for me now. It's so great that I've almost decided to only date transguys.
    The last twist, however, is this: lately in the past year or so when watching transguy porn, I've not been focusing so much on the transguy or having sex with him... More me wanting to experience what the transguy is going through!
    When I watch the porn, I don't think to myself: that I want to penetrate him or go down on him, I don't even want to pleasure myself...
    Not unless a guy will penetrate my vagina and go down on my vagina. I want a guy to have sex with me just like a woman and pleasure me just like a woman.
    The coin dropped: when watching straight porn I fantasised about being her, imagining what she feels as he pleasures her, the transguy porn, although still perfect for me, I fantasise about being the transguy.
    Like I originally said: I am male and was born male and very much comfortable and happy being a guy, as well as being gay and attracted to men. This situation is so strong that it has prompted me to consider about Reassignment surgery, but not to become a woman or to change my gender... Just to change my gentiles. Does such a procedure exist to just change genitals without changing one's gender??
    I don't mean to disrespect this surgery either. I'm well aware is there to support transitioning people from all walks of life, and although it sounds as if it would be done just for sexual gratification, it wouldn't. The more I think about having a vagina, the more... Me I feel. Thinking about it more I felt that I'm just dragging my own genitals around, and when aroused I don't like ejaculating so much as it's messy and personally, PERSONALLY for myself I feel like I shouldn't be ejaculating, that's what boyfriend should do for me, whisky inside me, making love to me, and all I need to do is orgasm. But I wouldn't feel me at the thought of make-up, a higher pitched voice, female clothing, a female name ect. I thought about warming up to those changes... No, it doesn't do it for me.

    Although, I know if such an option is available, the lack testosterone would change things slightly like the growth of my beard, a slightly fuller chest ect.
    This notion might blow the brains out anyone who would want to label me. I don't think I'd be trans as I don't need to be a woman. I can't be a transguy as I'm biologically male. I'm still male and still gay, but if anyone has any help or advice, or on the rarest chance there's a gay guy who thinks the exact same as me, please reply to let me know that I'm not a freak or so abnormal to think something like this.
     
  2. AudryLeigh
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    Well, there are an infinite number of shades in the rainbow, though I can't say I've ever heard of someone feeling as you describe. It seems that you are craving the same sexual experience that cis women enjoy -- but without the "woman" part. The surgery would be the same as what transsexual women have, but I think you'd be hard pressed (to say the least) to find a surgeon that would be willing to perform it on someone who wasn't transitioning. Also, I'm not sure how much pre-op hormone therapy (with estrogen) influences the outcome of the surgery. Another rather serious consideration (something you'd need to consult an endocrinologist about) is how your body would function with neither testosterone, nor estrogen in your system, and what the lack of testosterone would do to your sexuality -- you might (probably would) feel quite differently about the entire sexual experience, without testosterone. If I were you (I'm not, but if I were) I would first consult an endocrinologist about all the hormone related issues. IF it turns out that being without either sex hormone is something your body (and mind) could handle, then I think I'd consult a gender therapist, and see if you could get a letter of reference, convincing enough to get a surgeon to do the surgery. I think you're probably in uncharted territory here, and therefore I think that both endocrinologists and surgeons would consider what you want to do to be experimental, from a medical point of view. I'd also want to talk with a psychiatrist (or maybe a psychologist) about all the potential mental/emotional issues that would likely be raised. If you were to do this, and your sexuality or emotional makeup changed to the point where what appeals to you now, no longer did, there'd be no going back, and you could end up with major gender dysphoria for the rest of your life, which would be a terrible fate, and something that would have a very high probability of driving you to suicide, as untreated dysphoria results in a very high suicide rate -- and there'd be no way to treat the dysphoria you'd have, except possibly to transition into being female. IDK, I don't think you want to get your answers here -- I think you need to have some very serious and in depth conversations with an endocrinologist, and with a mental health professional who is very well versed in gender issues.

    [EDIT] I guess it might be possible to "transition" a hormonally sexually neutral body [back] into being male, by receiving the same hormone therapy that trans men get, but again I think that medical professionals would see this as entirely experimental, and with no research data to work from would be very reluctant to get involved, as it could conceivably cost them their license. [END EDIT]

    Hugs,
    Audry Leigh
     
    #2 AudryLeigh, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:41 AM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019 at 2:50 AM
  3. Guarani
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    Messed up hormones and even replacement hormones can cause serious healthproblems and death. It´s not to think lightly of. And if you take away the testes, something is going to happen with your T levels that needs to be adressed one way or another, as Audry said.

    As for function, I know you have to dilate for a very long time or it will simply grow shut. And it is not like they can guarantee you a functioning vagina anyway.
    It might end up very tght and not being deep enough...
    It might end up being just as painful as anal sex is for you.

    I think one has to be careful about fantasies. Because everything is perfect in a fantasy but in real life it might not give you pleasure at all.

    I find it painful to see people take porn as an example for how they should enjoy sex and /or what they should be like.
    One thing is getting aroused but another thing is changing oneself because of what arouses you.
    It is not like you have sex 24/7. There is more to you than your genitals.


    Transmen that are in porn, do it because of the market and it is a way of making money. I don´t think any of the would choose to keep a vagina if they could swop without risks and get a fully functional penis.
    It is the risks and costs of operations and the fact that they still can´t make a "good one", that is keeping them from having it done. Not because they enjoy their vagina so much. They just work with what they have.
    So taking a transman as an example for the ultimate body for your own enjoyment seems weird. (But hey, sex is a personal thing, I can´t tell another person what works for them.)

    Anyway, I should think it is possible, if you pay the right person, especially in Thailand, but I am afraid it will not at all meet your expectations.
    Also, as Audry sugested, I would seek psycholical help first and really look into the hormonal part and risks of it.

    I would consider trying to get anal sex enjoyable. Dilate your anus starting with small objects. Anal sex can be extremely good because of the prostate being tickled. I can´t imagine anything better. (Especially when I hear girls complain about not being able to reach an orgasm through just vaginal sex.)

    It is also possible to orgasm without ejaculation. You could read into enjoying sex as A PERSON more, before thinking about bodypart changes...
    https://medium.com/@dainis/tantric-sex-b3728ead2e63
    I am sure you can find plenty reads and even workshops for tantric sex for gay couples.
    It is really worth while deepening your sexlife beyond fantasies and orgasms.
    There is a whole other level out there.
     
  4. zen

    zen Curator, Royal Academy of Inappropriate Handshake
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    Hey, since posters above have explained much of the important health issues that might be resulted from receiving genital surgery, I have not much to add here in that regard, but being a pre-operation post-hormone trans man and gay man, I might be able to add a bit of reality of what its like.

    I think you can easily imagine you would find it difficult to find gay partners if you remain gay and having the female genital, can't you? Gay men are into dicks and the world revolves around dicks in gay scenes. Although there are some gay men who would date trans men, they are far from majority.

    Or are you thinking of keeping your penis? Then you won't be able to have a type of surgery that uses penis tissue for vaginal construction, and this means you won't be able to feel great using the resulted vagina.

    Even if you are able to find a surgeon who would accept surgery on you in a country (it would be extremely difficult to find one in developed countries because there is a regulation and strict procedural guidelines for this kind of operations), and If you don't want to keep your penis, you might also want to ask post-operation trans women about vaginoplasty that uses penis tissue and the results of their surgeries. From what I heard, many of the constructed vaginas can not bring orgasms, it does not lubricate naturally, and if you are thinking of removal of tests, you must be on testosterone (estrogen for MtFs) for life to prevent health issues such as osteoporosis. Sex hormones not only make 2 sexes functioning, but they also do many other things in our bodies to maintain our health.

    I kind of understand how you feel about anal sex. For people who have germaphobia-like tendency and are uncomfortable having sex using the not very sanitary body part which is not designed to have intercourse, it can be a turn-off. Also, the feeling of after-sex in that area is not quite nice. As Guarani said, some of them I'm sure can be overcome by practicing: by using toys to extend the muscles around the anus regularly if you feel comfortable doing this practice. Plus cleaning the area extensively before having sex in case you get turned off from unsanitary sex. If you can experience orgasm from anal sex, it might change your idea.
     
    #4 zen, Aug 18, 2019 at 9:05 AM
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019 at 9:15 AM
  5. Guarani
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    I am opposed to cleaning that area extensively. It is not necessary and brings its own health risks. A good wipe round the outside is enough.
    In straight couples, women have anal sex without all the fuss.
    That started at some point in the gay scene, but it is absurd.
    Use a condom, or toys that you can clean, or stay away from anal sex altogether if you are afraid of the flora that is supposed to be there or a trace of something.

    But there is more to sex than intercourse and about half of the gay couples do not have anal sex. Nothing wrong with saying no to it, bottom or top.
     
    #5 Guarani, Aug 18, 2019 at 10:25 AM
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019 at 10:31 AM
  6. zen

    zen Curator, Royal Academy of Inappropriate Handshake
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    Hey,

    I think this is a matter of preference, and more of younger generations tend to be obsessed about cleanliness, and its nothing to do with gender/sex, I guess?

    Thanx for the caution! It's true gut flora is very important for our health, but I don't think gut flora get disrupted unless we use washing liquid which contains a form of disinfectant. As long as it is cleaned with regular soapy water or natural and mild washing liquid, and only in the vicinity of entrance, then it won't kill the trillions of flora in the colon. It's far more dangerous to take antibiotic agents, actually.
     
  7. Guarani
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    No. It has its own history, it is not of this generation, and it is harmful. This comes from another site:
    It is okay to stay away from anal sex if it grosses you out, but it is not okay to rinse your insides.
     
  8. zen

    zen Curator, Royal Academy of Inappropriate Handshake
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    Oh, you seem you haven't noticed how some of today's young people are obsessed with their sanitation/cleanliness, they don't even welcome guests to their rooms unless they change into slippers and such. There must be a history of this type, but certainly the level of intensity is up these days.

    And I haven't said it grosses me out, mate, I get off on it actually, lol and I wrote there are some people who do and it wasn't about me. The link you gave me is informative in a off-topic way, but it wasn't about reduction of gut flora. If we constantly rinse the inside, the lining sure will get sore, but we would feel it when it comes to it, and also, that should be controlled by right methods and frequency considering many people practicing it regularly. I don't think it's healthy to take everything written on pseudo science articles whole-heartedly, too. If we want to sum this up in the middle, there are pros and cons in cleaning anus before anal sex, and I guess its up to the person, taking risks in exchange for not cleaning and not enjoying having sex.
     
  9. Guarani
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    zen The mention of the gut flora was just in relation to the mentioned fear of germs...

    I meant "one" when I say "you" in "if it grosses you out". I am sorry I didn´t state that clear enough. I meant in general, that if something doesn´t feel attractive, one can stay away from it.

    I have not missed that some people are obsessed with sanitation, I just don´t see the need to take that in consideration when it comes to making the point I tried to make. (That it is not of this generation and can do harm and that is why I used the information from a forum for gay youngsters, adressed to those who worry about anal hygiene...)

    You took it in consideration because you were trying to help the topic starter, I was just defending myself because you mentioned my name in the same sentence as cleaning the area extensively and I had to make clear that that part was not my idea.
    And that´s how it ended up off topic and I am sorry.
     
  10. AudryLeigh
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    Not sure how this got to where it is, but some things are way off base here. Your lower intestine is the source of many, many bacteria, a good number of which are extremely harmful if they end up anywhere other than in your lower intestine. Medically speaking, many serious diseases are spread via what is referred to as the "fecal - oral route," which means stuff getting from anyone's ass to anyone's mouth. If you are going to practice anal sex, cleanliness and sanitation are of paramount importance. If done correctly, there are no problems associated with cleansing one's self internally or externally. If done incorrectly, many serious problems can result. There is no need to worry about getting your lower intestine too clean and destroying the bacterial mix that needs to be there for proper digestion to occur, as the lower intestine is constantly being re-inoculated by material entering it from the small intestine. Mild soap and water are not a problem -- antibiotics however are (antibacterial soap, for example), as the antibiotics will kill the bacteria which constantly enter the lower intestine from the upper, thus disrupting the delicate balance of bacteria necessary for proper digestion. Excessive, compulsive cleaning can be a serious problem, but only in the same way that excessive, compulsive washing of your hands would be -- normal skin oils can be washed away leaving the skin brittle and subject to infection through a breach in the otherwise germ-tight skin. Similarly, simple abrasion from overzealous cleaning can damage the skin and breach the normal, natural barrier, allowing bacteria to get into areas where they don't belong. If normal skin weren't a barrier to [most] bacteria, we'd all be dead from e.coli infections spread from our intestines into our blood stream. If you are going to indulge in anal sex, simply ask a doctor how to properly and sufficiently provide for appropriate cleanliness and sanitation -- do not rely on what you hear from others, or on the street, or read on the Internet -- ASK A DOCTOR! This is not rocket science, but you do have to make certain you are working with factual, accurate information, and much of what I have read here does not qualify. Also, the subject of what it takes to make anal sex safe comes under the heading of medical information, and absolutely no one on this site is qualified to provide medical information. Anyone who provides incorrect information regarding what is and is not safe and prudent with regards to medical issues, regardless of how well meaning they may be, is subject to being banned, as we absolutely cannot afford to have inaccurate information relating to health and safety issues spread among our users. All discussion regarding the details of of what constitutes safe or appropriate practices regarding anal sex will stop right here, with this post, period. Any further such discussion will result in bans being imposed. This particular topic is officially no longer open for discussion.

    Sincerely,
    Audry Leigh: LGBTchat Senior Staff
     
  11. Guarani
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    AudryLeigh as explained it was only about the fact MY NAME was mentioned in the same sentense as cleaning extensively. You can delete all my replies that are off topic, but please have that sentence put in a way that it doesn´t look as if I suggest it.
     
  12. zen

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    I edited my original post so that no one will think that you have suggested cleaning of anus. I had no idea you were worried being mistaken for suggesting cleaning the area from what I wrote. I meant no harm to anyone, I just guessed that people who read this thread would know that cleaning part was not suggested from you. Cheers.
     

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