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No justice, no peace

Discussion in 'News & Politics' started by Radical_Woomy, May 31, 2020.  |  Print Topic

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  1. Radical_Woomy

    Radical_Woomy Great Learner
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    I share the frustration. What happened to George Floyd infuriated me. It also made me incredibly sad. His pleading voice will forever be imprinted in my brain. I cried after seeing that video. It was the equivalent of a public lynching. And when people did try to protest peacefully, it was met with tear gas, so I don't wanna hear it.

    I won't condemn the riots. And if this is what you're trying to question or criticize first, then I think that's just being part of a problem in its own right because you need to ask yourself why it reached that point. Don't get it twisted either. I would rather people not get hurt, but I understand. This rage is also people grieving.

    MLK once said riots are the language of the unheard. And while that man was an advocate of non-violent tactics, the overall point of the speech where this quote comes from is talking about how the best way to prevent riots is to usher in real change. Because riots don't happen for no reason.

    But change isn't happening. Cops are still senselessly murdering black people over the color of their skin. When they tried to protest peacefully, like I said, it was met with tear gas and rubber bullets. Yet just a few weeks ago a bunch of dumb white people stormed up to their governor's houses, ARMED, aggressively demanding the fucking Applebees to open up in the midst of a pandemic. Nothing happened to them.

    Enough is enough. There comes a breaking point. No justice, no peace.

    Because those people trying to claim the rioters are no better than the killer cops are fucking wrong and don't care about peace. How many times did people do that but they had a problem with it? They don't want your peaceful protest, they want your silence.

    Pride month starts tomorrow, and as members of the LGBTQ+ community, we should remember that Stonewall was a riot. The event that is considered the catalyst for the our civil rights movement. So I stand with these protestors. People want change, and they're tired of others not listening.

    Buildings can be rebuilt. George Floyd isn't coming back to life. Neither are all those other people who became victims of racial violence and the systemic racism that enables it. Hope people stay safe. I don't want to see anyone be getting seriously hurt. But I get it. No justice, no peace.
     
  2. john1010101
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    Well put but I’m horrified at where this all may end especially while the US has a president willing to use any possible dirty tactic to keep himself as dictator.
     
  3. River W.
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    My hope is that some good will come out of these protests, but I think that may be wishful thinking. The problem is so deeply rooted in this country, it's gonna take more than protests to bring about significant change. Protesting is a start, but it's not the end.

    Trump will use any means necessary to keep his power. If that means letting people die, I have a feeling he's more than willing to do so.

    To me there's only a few ways this could end. Either an authoritarian crackdown where many people lose their rights and lives... Or the protests will be enough to scare the government into actually changing and reforming things to prevent this sort of thing from happening for a long time. Let's hope it's the latter. Keep doing whatever you can to fight back. It's now or never.
     
  4. ConfusedButHappy
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    I only have one issue with the riots, related to the above quote. I don't understand the cost-analysis people make when they say "buildings can be rebuilt". Yes, obviously, but why does that mean we should burn them? I just don't see what burning a building achieves. Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't mean I don't think this is a worthy cause.

    In the same way I don't understand looting, why on earth is the police force responding as aggressively in some areas as they are??? Some of these videos floating around on Twitter are incredibly disturbing. Yes, people shouldn't burn down buildings, but the police shouldn't be shooting people in the face either. The difference being that people ARE being arrested for rioting, but I haven't seen police officers being arrested for brutality during these protests/riots (apart from the initial case).

    I really hope that all of this leads to positive change FAST. Based on the US president's response so far, I'm not so sure how that will happen.

    (Forgot to add: I want to remind all the Americans here to vote if possible, especially if you care about these issues)
     
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    #4 ConfusedButHappy, Jun 1, 2020
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  5. Radical_Woomy

    Radical_Woomy Great Learner
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    You keep asking yourself "what does burning buildings accomplish?" And that's missing the point. You need to understand why people are doing this. And it's like trying to tell a person how to grieve.

    There's a domino effect, and there comes a breaking point. Society does not uphold their part of the bargain that affords certain communities the same rights and privileges that other people have. Yet we are still obligated to participate in this system because of the ingrained belief that society and order benefits us all. But marginalized communities don't see these benefits.

    Time and time again black people are practically told their place in society is not valued. That the powers at be do not care about them. And the people who keep criticizing the rioters more than they do the cop killers are the same people who don't actually care about your peaceful protest. They like peaceful protest because they can ignore them. What they really want is silence. It's all so infuriating.

    The police incited these riots. People tried protesting peacefully, and like I said it was met with tear gas.

    This is all following multiple incidents of black people being threatened and or killed just because of the color of their skin. Against the backdrop of a global pandemic that has also statistically affected their communities more than anyone else. That domino effect.

    After all this, being constantly reminded how society is built to keep you oppressed and allows government agents to keep killing you with hardly any consequences.....Again, it's not what burning the buildings accomplish, it's why they're doing it.

    We're angry, and sometimes you just need to burn some fucking shit to the fucking ground. I get it. I'll be honest, if I was in Minneapolis, I'd be out there too.
     
    #5 Radical_Woomy, Jun 1, 2020
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  6. Iharos
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    No justice, no peace.
    From a psychological perspective, this statement is pretty tricky. Please do not get me wrong, although I live far away and just saw headlines about riots in the USA, I understand that people are and have been in situations that they cannot accept any longer. Demonstrations and riots lie on the road that people go down. I am not judging, this is only a factual statement.

    The idea of no justice, no peace does go down much further into the unconscious, and, personally, I believe it is a difficult path to choose. See, it implies that unless there is no justice, the rage inside the people will not only stay awake, but actually will be kept at a high by the people themselves. They will see their anger as a result of the injustice - which, in their percerption, is absolutely accurate.
    But there is one more thing to it. The need for vengeance. This, and only this alone, is what I am speaking of as a psychologically difficult situation.
    Letting out anger and aggression is majorly important. We must deal with our anger. When it turns into the need to revenge, it has passed a healthy point.

    Again, I am not downplaying the situation at all. I understand that people are frustrated beyond measure. That there have been unprovoked conflicts that resulted in deaths. Of course that is unacceptable.
    What I fear is, that many people will put more aggression into this, than needed.

    I'm not sure I can actually put things into the right words, as English is my third language. I have this extreme need to solve conflicts, to mediate between sides, to look beyond hurt and find and point out things that people have not thought of. Obviously I cannot solve the issues at hand. I'm just worried that many more people will loose their lives because they gave into their need to avenge the past deaths. That can too easily create a vicious circle.
     
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  7. ConfusedButHappy
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    I completely agree with everything you've said. I just don't understand why people say "buildings can be rebuilt" at all. What do they mean? I'm just concerned that people are so caught up in the moment that they forget that the ultimate goal is to solve the problem with as little violence as possible (which is what the police is supposed to do too, but clearly haven't). Luckily, it seems like most of the people are there for the right reasons.

    This whole situation is very difficult for me to process. I cannot stand violence at all and as a Christian, I don't believe in revenge whatsoever. Justice yes, revenge no. BUT I literally cannot think of another way for the minorities in America to correct this injustice within the system. They've tried peaceful protests in the past. They've tried sorting it out legally. It never seems to work. So the last option seems to be more violent protests (and I know not all of the protests atm are violent). Sadly, we don't even know if this will work.

    I genuinely wish it didn't have to be like this, but you're right. These people are hopeless and feel like they have no other option. So I just hope it all ends soon and that justice prevails somehow (which I doubt based on Trump's response so far)...
     
    #7 ConfusedButHappy, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  8. AudryLeigh
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    "No justice, no peace," is not a slogan, or matra, or rallying cry. It IS a statement of fact. It's not a threat, it's not a plan of action or a call to arms. It's a fact, pure and simple, an empirical fact. Deny justice to the people and there will not be peace [for long] (see the French Revolution for an example). At this point in history, for the powers that be to fail to provide true and meaningful justice is like throwing gasoline on a fire. The fire is already burning. And you can't disguise kerosene, lighter fluid, alcohol, or anything else as some kind of step towards justice ("Well it's not AS flammable"), it all burns. The cool, crystal clear water of justice is needed to put out this fire, and it's already going to take LOTS of it. If the government doesn't have enough, or isn't willing to pour it out in sufficient quantities... Well, this is the stuff or revolution. Has it started? Is it going to spread faster than the government can control it? Many outbreaks in many places are hard to control, and we've already hit the point where too much force, or overreaction will spark even more anger and then..... At some point a smouldering cigarette or ember from a campfire sparks a forrest fire. Then you have a revolution. We can't storm the Bastille, but storming enough "Justice" institutions in rapid succession could have the same effect. Any flame jumper will tell you that it is a Hell of a lot easier to fight one great big fire than it is a lot of little ones, and if the little ones grow and start combining, you have a firestorm that cannot be put out. Firestorms have to burn out. The aftermath would be dismal, but with the biggest problem being the first target (before the firestorm took over and targeted everything), the chances of starting over in better shape would be likely.

    Audry Leigh Lin Lancaster
     
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  9. Duckboots
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    I've posted about this before, and I wont retract my statement. Violence isn't the answer. But the problem has gotten more complicated then that. It's at a point where neither side can back down. The can only get what they want by continuing doing what they are doing. That's the path they chose. I understand why its necessary in some ways. I don't think it's the only path they could have chosen, but I can understand why they chose to do things this way.
    A change, however, a real change, is going to take a little while. It doesn't change because of one large protest. The government can make all the laws they want, but they can't just flip a switch and get rid of every racist cop in every state. They can make the punishment of such actions more severe, but that's not going to stop everyone.
    A deep systematic change takes consistency. Repeated protests. Over many years. That's why I believe riots are actually not the only or best way to handle this. The problem is too deep.
    Maybe I'm wrong, and riots are the only way. I just don't like the idea.
     
  10. AudryLeigh
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    I don't like the idea either, but again, I point your attention to the French Revolution. We tried peaceful protests in the 70s, and the cops started riots -- in Chicago, at Kent State, Selma, Montgomery, etc, etc, etc. When the people above the problem (i.e., the justice departments that oversee crooked cops) no longer care, the people below the problem (the victims) pretty much resort to violence, usually out of frustration and a desire for revenge. I wish the human psyche worked differently, but as long as we have the descendants of both cro magnon and neanderthals running around together, there's going to be violence. Go into any roadhouse bar for an in your face example.

    Hugs,
    Audry Leigh
     
  11. Duckboots
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    Audry,

    I agree with everything you said and I kind of look up to you a bit, so I take your words very seriously. I get it. I understand why things got the way they are. Really, if you would have asked me at any other point in my life my stand point would be very different.
    I don't have anything bad to say about the people protesting. They are doing what they believe is right, and I hope that this message is taken seriously. It needs to be taken seriously.
    Still, its sad it had to be this way.
     

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