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"Arguments" against trans people

Discussion in 'Transgender' started by Berk, Dec 28, 2020.  |  Print Topic

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  1. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    Why are transphobes so stupid. You cant even enjoy arguing with them because their points are so bad.

    "Trans people are brainwashing our kids to be trans"
    LMAO i have NEVER come across a trans person telling someone they are trans (even online). We all usually say "maybe but you should see a therapist/professional about it"
    Honestly where does that come from?????

    "Its not natural"
    Okay heres a list of "unnatural" things we all do:
    - cook food
    - wear clothes
    - use technology
    - have ceremonies for everything (birthdays/marriages/funerals)
    - make-up, hair dye, and kind of skin care/ beauty stuff/ shampoo/ deodorant
    - living in overly geometric, planned out homes
    - distil water
    - use insect repellent
    - eat food that has been processed
    - use man made materials
    etc you get the idea
    The fact that being trans is unnatural baffles me
    did you know that in the wild frogs are known to spontaneously change their sex

    "Trans people are pervs"
    Mate I dont need to spend years altering my body, spend thousands and go through countless therapy sessions just to see naked people. That stuff is just a click away on the internet.
    And also most trans people are too dysphoric to consider sexual things. Looking at a naked person is just going to remind me of the things im missing and the things that shouldnt be there. Also bold of you to assume im attracted to you lol

    "Being trans is fake"
    Yeah... Dysphoria doesn't exist.

    "Trans is a mental illness"
    No, dysphoria is the illness, transitioning is the treatment.

    "Its wrong because *insert religious arguement*"
    Noice. Most religions also demand respecting and tolerating others, and my sins are between god and I. You dont see me calling you out for having sex before marriage, swearing, being arrogant/egotistical etc so please shut up.

    ALSO NOT AN ARGUMENT BUT:
    Transman comes out. Is banned from mens sport for taking testosterone. Excels in womens sports. Transphobes hate him.
    Transwoman comes out. People dont want her in womens sport cuz "scientifically males have physical advantages". Science shows after being on hrt she loses said strength and power, but obviously that is fake because it disproves transphobic arguments.
    I just don't understand. NO SPORTS ORGANISATION IS PITTING SOME 300POUND ALPHA MALE AGAINST A TINY SPORTSWOMAN LESS THAN HALF HIS SIZE JUST BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS A WOMAN THE DAY BEFORE

    Feel free to reply making fun of stupid transphobes, I find it fun to point out the holes in their arguments
     
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  2. Fuzzlez

    Fuzzlez Great Learner
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    I've heard this several times from a former coworker of mine. She was convinced that it was "unfair" for MTF athletes to compete with "normal" female athletes because "they're so much stronger."

    In my old office team, at least half of them would've thought I was mental because I identified as agender (now possibly trans). Nice people otherwise, but those views though. "There's only two genders" was a frequent argument. I didn't want to alienate myself so I just stayed quiet. I wish I could've been braver.


    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
     
  3. Tzap

    Tzap Reliable Advisor
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    Its getting better especially in sports, well some sports. Weightlifting for one is trying to be one of the first to have transgender compete against ??gender born?? (don't think I put that correctly so the ?? are there) where a transwoman competed in a women's event (yes it was blasted as a promotional tool and slated ripped apart and almost became riotous but it happened). But I do have a good laugh at all these big men that my sons hang around with, who I know most of them are phobic in one way or another, try to argue how women are the weaker and then call cheat when Amanda Nunes called out that stupid utuber (one of the Paul brothers who I really don't give two f@@ks about) because she would get battered by him because he is male and she only holds 2 weight division UFC championships, even the main people (Dana White) of the organisation refused her to fight Mr Paul for fear she would literally accidentally kill him.
    Stupid people
     
    #3 Tzap, Dec 29, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  4. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    Honestly, I don’t get why cishet people think they have the right to talk about this shit. The professionals and industry leaders and stuff discuss these topics because they have doctors and researchers providing the right information. While these stupid transphobes don’t even understand the steps in a transition and get all their knowledge from misinformation and/or right wing media.
    No sane person tells a doctor how they should advise their patients. No sane person goes to a construction site and starts pestering the architect about the project. No sane person should be talking about shit they don’t know.
     
  5. Pibaire
    Fine

    Pibaire Village Idiot
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    "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way throughout political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
    Issac Asimov
     
  6. LexLex
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    LexLex Hot Cookie
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    I think you are from turkey because of your name. If you are from Turkey, being trans in Turkey is not same as being trans in germany or another country in EU. In Turkey people doesnt even respect to the people if they are not "Muslim". In germany people "will", "must" respect to you. I am sorry to say this but transphobia in turkey is like %80+ For an example last week i saw a instagram post his account is for share comedy videos or etc. But he just shared gays, lesbians are kissing and wrote "I hate lgbt". And he have like 600-800k followers. And nearly all of them who commented to that video supported who sent the video. In germany non transphobia is like %80-90 all of my german friends are respect to trans people. But most of my foreign friends from east europa doesn´t respect lgbt. Also in Turkey polices are doesnt event help, respect to the trans people. So how can a trans people defend his right in turkey?
    Easy, if you have money in Turkey no matter who you are
    people will respect you. Otherwise they won´t respect to you.

    In the Turkey when you see someone on the street, you can't even say hello. He/She will be shocked. If you are a man and If the person in front of you is a woman she will think you are harasing her.

    About the future of Turkey, unfortunately, I Theres no hope. I left my Turkish citizenship before I was 18. I was a Turkish citizen because of my father. Such a country can never be my homeland.
     
    #6 LexLex, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  7. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    Can I just applaud you for recognising the name :D  most people dont. Thankfully I've lived in Holland/England for all my life. Turkey is utter shambles nowadays, my parents want my older brother to revoke his citizenship before they reach out for his 2 year military draft. I agree with everything you've said, it feels like Turkey is always 20 years behind everyone else. Also that bastard Erdogan has made everything even worse. But yeah that's enough politics for now, message me if you want to talk, it would be very interesting to get to know the perspective of an "ex-Turk".
    Thankfully, most of what I said is mainly on social media and I've almost never had it directed to me (probably because I'm mostly closeted)
     
  8. Foxglove
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    Hi, Berk! Very good questions you're raising here, and I'll give you my answers.

    Firstly, the reason that our enemies make themselves look so stupid is that they haven't got a clue what they're talking about. I myself have said it over and over: at this point there's no telling how many haters I've encountered, and I have yet to encounter a one who knows what it is to be transgender.

    You can't talk intelligently on a topic if you don't even know what that topic is. E.g., if I started talking about the game of bridge, straightaway I'd make myself look quite stupid because I don't know the first thing about the game. That's where our enemies are. They don't actually know what we are. E.g., as JK Rowling put it, a transgender woman is "a man who feels or believes he's a woman." When that's their idea of what we are, how could they possibly say anything intelligent about us?

    Another thing about them is that they're simply unteachable. Point out to them that they're mistaken, they don't seem to understand. They have their own narrative about trans issues and they're so certain they're right that the notion they could actually be wrong seems to be meaningless to them. It's why one man I encountered asserted that "if a transgender person goes into a coma, presumably he's no longer transgender." That makes sense to him and it doesn't occur to him that he could be wrong.

    As to why their points are so bad, it's because they haven't got any good ones. For me, being transgender is a very practical matter. "I'm transgender. Now how am I going to live so as to maximize my happiness?" I settle on the way I need to live and off I go. That's all there is to it.

    I don't need to waste my time arguing with stupid people about questions that don't mean anything. I'd point out to them: "Here in Ireland we transgender people have had civil rights for 5 years and we're causing other people no problems. It's what I'm doing in my little town. I live my life as I please and I'm not bothering a soul. Now you give me a good reason as to why I shouldn't be doing that."

    That is the real question, and they simply have no comeback. Wherever transpeople have gained some sort of freedom, we've proven we can live our lives without being a nuisance to others. Since our enemies can't argue with that, they avoid the question altogether and go off arguing other stuff that doesn't mean a thing. Every argument they come up with is merely an effort to distract us and everybody else from the real question.

    E.g., one of our enemies recently claimed that with transgender people "gender trumps sex". To which I reply, "So what? I'm not entirely sure that it's true, but even if it is, so what? Does that mean I'm bothering people that I'm not bothering? Does that mean I shouldn't have rights that I can exercise without being a nuisance to anybody else?"

    Our enemies have to come up with bad points because if they address the real question, they lose.

    That's the way I see it, Berk!
     
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  9. Thief King Bakura
    Zorro

    Thief King Bakura I'm CROSSING THE LINE
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    Unfortunately, these Transphobes and TERFy types are like dipshits, they don't have an intelligent comment to say about anything. I've heard some of these before by maybe a few people. "I don't agree with your "life choice" is a popular one and to that which I say: bitch, do you think I 'chose" to born in the wrong body? Oh hell no. I have been fighting this for the past few years now and trying to do things to make me feel better in my body and to affirm myself more as a guy. It's been tough. I'd like to see these people go through two puberties and then we can talk lol.

    Don't waste time with these ignorant fuckers. They're idiots and unfortunately, they'll exist until the end of time. Meanwhile, I'm going to be over here, transitioning and living my life. Oh wait, I've been doing that already. Also fuck TERFs and Transphobes, that's our lesson for the day.
     
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  10. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    This isn't related to trans issues but the phrase "life choice" reminded me of the other day when my biology teacher referred to anorexia as a "lifestyle choice" and i was just like DUDE WHAT THE FUCK??????????

    On another note I find it ironic when they say "facts don't care about your feelings" but refuse to acknowledge that science proves trans people are real and natural...
     
  11. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    Foxglove thanks for your answers! I love that you bring up the fact that we as trans people are just living our lives, the only time we speak up is when we are attacked.
     
  12. SophiasChoice
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    SophiasChoice Transexual MTF (non-SRS) | Pansexual
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    As far as MTF trans in certain female sports (I'm MTF trans), I think there's some validity to the argument against it.

    1. There's no issue with FTM trans in male sports. This supports the idea that MTF trans in certain female sports do have an advantage.
    2. I've been on HRT for almost 7 months. My musculature is still largely the same. It will most likely take a few years on HRT for my musculature to change (I have very thick muscles, even though I never used weights).
    3. My bone structure will not change (but bone density may with years of HRT), especially after puberty. This is probably the defining characteristic between biological males and females, particularly after puberty.

    As far as what to do about the situation, I think it should be left up to the women participating in the sport, and the trans women wanting to participate. I'd much prefer that, than a "governing body" of the sport to make the decision, because they make it a political issue.
     
  13. Thief King Bakura
    Zorro

    Thief King Bakura I'm CROSSING THE LINE
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    Small Trigger Warning: Subject of Video could be troubling, watching at your own discretion and mental health. <3
    0=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
    Found this video by a youtuber I follow named Suris. He's Trans friendly but the subject content he covers isn't. What he is talking about here is that GA proving that it isn't about sports, it's about transphobia.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
    My Thoughts: I am tired of these fucking lawmakers going after Trans women in sports. If a trans person wants to play sports, fucking let them! Jiminy fucking Christmas. Now they want to inspect little girl's body parts to make sure they're actually "a girl" and have the "correct plumbing." This is so fucking shameful in so many ways and damaging to young kids. It's one thing to get checked out down there for health concerns, but not just play a fucking sport. I can't....yes, I know it's a "proposal" but the fact of the matter is, shit like this makes me fucking pissed because of the hateful bigotry being displayed by these fuckers proposing it in the first place. They don't give a damn about children's mental health, it's about bigotry and transphobia and fucking control.
    [​IMG]
    Moral of the story: Fuck TERFs, Fuck Transphobes, Fuck bigots, and still keep being your awesome handsome and gorgeous ass selves. <3
     
    #13 Thief King Bakura, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  14. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    There is an issue of FTM individuals in sport though it is much less talked about since transphobes hate trans women so much more (and don’t really take trans men seriously). In sports like weightlifting trans men are banned due to taking testosterone, which is considered doping. Therefore they have to compete in women’s sport, but then they obviously have an advantage due to being on HTR. I have seen transphobes rant about this but as I said, trans women seem to be a much more topical issue.
    Don’t most sports have criteria such as a minimum of 2 years on HTR for trans women? It’s a matter of common sense, if no changes happen with HTR then a trans woman will have an advantage, but for most changes do happen. And cis woman in sports also have certain advantages over each other. Many have higher levels of testosterone naturally (arguably even higher than trans women since they use testosterone blockers). Certain women in sport are much larger than others, but they are allowed to compete. And size and strength aren’t the only important factors in sport. Having one trans woman on the team is an advantage, but like any other advantage the opposition will make a game plan against that. There are studies showing that trans women lose most of their advantages after a certain time on HTR. In my opinion people are just using all this to be transphobic, women’s sports has never been this “important” and talked about, and yet suddenly all these people are suddenly outraged by the idea of trans women competing against cis women. As I said, people who run/govern sports aren’t insane, they aren’t pitting huge pre-HTR trans women against cis women. There are regulations in place already, and studies that back these regulations. People just make every damn thing political when it isn’t.
     
  15. SophiasChoice
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    SophiasChoice Transexual MTF (non-SRS) | Pansexual
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    Sure, it's a valid point, since taking testosterone in male sports in general is an unfair advantage. However, even FTM individuals on testosterone are not consistently winning by a large amount over other competitors like MTF individuals are in female sports. Heck, I don't even think they're even winning or even coming close to winning. That is probably the main reason it's not really talked about.
     
  16. Berk

    Berk Hot Cookie
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    Yeah it’s just that there’s a weird twisted confusing double standard there that makes me feel yuck. For a trans man to come anywhere close to be able to challenge cis men in bodybuilding/weightlifting/wrestling they have to be on hormones, but they are banned from certain competitions for taking hormones. Look up Mack Beggs for example, he was forced to compete in women’s wrestling by the Texas authorities, won the competition twice and got booed on his second victory. He was 18 at the time and on a low dose of T, he requested multiple times to compete in men’s sports but they didn’t let him (because of having F on his birth certificate) but the normal people didn’t want him competing against girls either.
    If people are so hell bent on protecting females in sports then they should be talking about trans men too, since without HRT trans men are basically females competing against males with a far bigger advantage than trans women. God that was probably really confusing, I hope you get what I mean. Just like y’know the double standards there make me question their motives behind this whole “let’s ban/restrict trans women because blah blah” thing.
     
  17. SophiasChoice
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    SophiasChoice Transexual MTF (non-SRS) | Pansexual
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    Yeah, Berk, I agree. I do notice issues with both MTF vs FTM, but they're different, each in their own way, and each equally important.

    There's also a lot of hypocrisy. For example, transphobic people will say trans women are not women, and physically attack them (but they wouldn't hit a woman). However, by that same logic, they should say trans men are not men (and therefore women to them)... however, they physically attack them, too.

    When I was in high school, we had two girls on our football and wrestling team. I don't think any members of our team had a problem with it. They didn't get to compete at the varsity level, nor did they get a bunch of playing time, so that might have had something to do with it. Just throwing this out there.

    The thing with male sports and testosterone, is that biological males naturally produce testosterone, and non-naturally produced testosterone (and similar hormones) are illegal, because they're supplying themselves with something more than they can produce naturally. I think the fair thing to do for FTM athletes, is allow a certain level of testosterone that's equal to the average that the biological male athletes are naturally producing. Basically, have 3 month testing for all athletes for testosterone levels (which I think they already do). Say the average level is 200, then the allowable amount of testosterone for FTM athletes on HRT should allow to be at 200, but not any higher (I don't think that's a safe level, anyway). They would not be getting any more testosterone than any other biological male athlete is producing naturally.
     
    #17 SophiasChoice, Feb 18, 2021 at 2:41 PM
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021 at 2:46 PM

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